Why I didn’t buy a hybrid car
UPDATE: I've writen a more complete and up-to-date review of the Toyota Echo Hatchback after having owned it for seven months. Read the full review: silverorange stuff review of the 2004 Toyota Echo Hatchback
I’m as much a conspiracy theorist as the next guy. However, I tend to think the slow adoption of electric vehicles has more to do with consumers (like myself) being cheap/lazy/stupid/greedy than it does with an evil oil oligarchy propping up the traditional auto industry.
That said, let’s take a look at hybrid cars. I consider myself a lazy/opportunistic environmentalist. That is, I’ll make the better environmental choice if it is easy and obvious. I’ll even spend a bit of extra cash, but it doesn’t go much further than that.
I had looked at the latest round of hybrid gas/electric cars and was generally disappointed. First of all, they are mostly absurdly designed (they look stupid, with the Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius roughly equal in their ugliness). This is improving. The next model of the Prius (2004) is much better looking (though still odd), and Honda made the seemingly obvious, but oddly unique, move of making their Civic Hybrid look exactly like a normal Civic.
On top of being ugly, they are very expensive. If you’re Mr. Moneybanks and want to save your soul from 20-years of driving a giant Cadillac, the price of a novelty hybrid may not bother you much. However, the hybrids so far are compact cars. The base price (MRSP) of a Honda Civic is $16,000.00 (Canadian funds) while the Civic Hybrid weights in at a hefty $28,500.00. This isn’t a totally fair comparison (the hybrid has a fancy transmission and other features not available in the ordinary Civic) - but still, and extra $12,500? I could buy a Kia for that much.
Enter the 2004 Toyota Echo Hatchback. It is not a hybrid - but it is very good on a gas. This table shows how the Echo hatchback stacks up against some of the hybrids:
| mpg city/hwy | |
| Echo Hatchback (2004) | 37/45 |
| Civic Hybrid (2004) | 47/48 |
| Prius Hybrid (2003) | 45/52 |
| Honda Insight (2003) | 61/68 |
IMPORANT NOTE:
When originally posted, I listed the Echo Hatchback milage as 42/54 mpg (city/highway). I got this info from the Toyota.ca website. However, it was misleading and innacurate as I posted it in comparison with the other figures. The Toyota.ca figure was using imperial gallons while all of the other model figures were using US gallons. An astute reader corrected me in the replies to this post. I have updated the figures to to US gallons so the comparison to the other models is accurate. While these more accurate figures show that the Echo Hatchback is less fuel efficient than I had originally though, I think it is close enough to the hybrids that my original point stands. Sorry for the confusion.
The fuel economy of this generation of hybrids is not yet worth (to me) the premium.
So, for now, I’ve leased a silver, four-door, 2004 Echo Hatchback. See some photos, and a 360° QTVR. I’m also pleased to report that it has a CD/MP3 player that is not ridiculously designed, as most are (photo).
Pat
By the way, this should now move me up to the top of Peter Rukavina's list of fuel economy of his friends cars.
On the other hand the performance of your car is great - I beleive that the diesel golf is also very good
I know that image is not everything, but it means something. I don't want to drive something that I really find ugly simply becuse it's a lot of money to invest. I want somthig that works well, lasts a long time, yet looks good. These hybrids are ugly and too "futuristic".
Can you get emotionally attached to an Echo or Focus like VWs were so good at...oh, I forgot about your VW BBQ model...
That puts me at about 6.3 litres/100Km (or 37.3 miles/gallon). This is less than Toyota's states figures (city/hwy) 6.7/5.2 l/100km (42/54 mpg).
I'll post another update after the second tank.
So far, I'm quite happy with my purchase. I'll probably post a more detailed review after I've had more time with it.
1. You can get a Civic Hybrid for less that 28,000 .Although I only know the Prices in American dollars the basic model runs from 20,000 up.
2.The Prius gets 52/45 mileage because they built the technology to depend more on the electric motor at lower speeds.
Also I would like to add that all the Hybrids have better emissions than the Echo. Fuel economy is not the only thing that we can watch to help the environment.
Ben
PS: Flame me all you want I like the way they look!
how can you expect to get so much more out of it.
This is not considering the better fuel emmissions.
and for the insight, well you compare a 2000 model technology with a 2004, give Honda a chance to upgrade its insight
On the other hand I have to agree with you on the 12 000 $ ( very cheap )
I think it's a fun car to drive, in the city. It's got good low-end acceleration and a very smooth ride.
Other financials: 3 years free routine maint. (everything)
You theoretically spend less money on the brakes because they are used less (the generator is what normally slows the car down).
The tax break is only a $2000 deduction (not a credit), worth about $600 at best (you may have to explain this to the sales guy) and it is being phased out.
GOOD NEWS: The 2004 model is 5 inches longer, has interior room comparable to Camry, cuts 1 sec off 0-60 acceleration time with a more powerful motor, AND gets better mileage (55 to 61 city mpg, depending on whose story you believe). And it looks more conventional, for those of you who don't want to stand out.
I would like to hear from Toyota and
other leasing firms on this!
I've been driving a Prius since December 2000, and must say it is the best car I've owned to date.
The average fuel consumption over the last 26,000 miles is 46.8 mpg; that's living close to sea level, but in the costal mountain range (lots of steep hills). I purchased it mainly for the SULEV rating that can get you a HOV lane sticker (this means you can drive in the carpool lane with only one occupant), as well as wanting to support Toyota in bringing this car into the US.
Now, with child #2 here and soccer season coming, we're looking for a hybrid mini-van! Anyone heard if Toyota is bringing their all-wheel-drive hybrid Estima to North America? Or is anyone else planning a minivan?
I would prefeer the Toyota, since their new drive system is a PZEV (Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle), which is something like 10X cleaner than the current Prius.
Oh, and count me in for LIKING the look of the Prius; I've been told it's very cute by many people as well. At least I think they meant the car....
Robin - please do let us know how your weekend with the new Prius goes.
Thanks guys.
I highly recommend this car. Two other male friends of mine drove it and were also very impressed. One said that it corners better than his Passat. Rent it and go for a ride.
I went for my first Prius test drive today - liked it once I got used to the gear shifter. I'll go back and spend some more time with it, also test drive the Civic Hybrid which my car nut friends say I should try as well.
I think, though, they don't understand the big diff in pollution output, and especially considering the better performance / fuel economy of the new version Prius vs. the essentially unchanged Civic.
I’ve looked at the Honda’s and the Toyota Prius. I feel the Prius wins hands down. There was an article in the November Popular Mechanics which praised the car, although I believe it was an advertisement.
We put on about 35,000 miles a year and I’m just a little concerned about how the Prius will hold up. If anyone out there owns one and puts on a considerable amount of miles I would be interested in hearing your comments.
Robin, Thanks for your idea about renting a Pirus, it’ll be a great way to get a feel for the car.
Thanks for any help.
Bill
That is exactly what the oil companies want you to believe. I almost stopped reading your article at this point, but because you had the smarts to buy a hybrid I read on. consumers are generally stupid, lazy and greedy. They are also easily mislead by any business model that is fed to them. Evil oil companies are out there, don't underestimate there power to take you $$$$$$. A few years ago gm yota and a few other companies came out with electric cars, that used no gas at all. GM stopped production right away, claiming "There was no demand for such a car." The real reason was not that there was not any demand, but that it would take away from there revenues. Car manufacturers makes billions off parts, that is why they keep comming out with cars that have more and more parts, so they can charge more and more for installation ect. Electric cars are way more practical than todays gas fed dinosaurs. They require a lot less maintance and FUEl. Without maintance and fuel the big boys and oil companies don't make there $$$$. Consumers never make the choice, big business does, I may sound like a conspirist, but the facts are there. Congrats on your purchase, if you were really looking cheaper option, look into converting a econo gas fed car into an electric car, and not let savage oil companies decide the world's fate
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4214/build.html
Diesels have a fantastic reputation for high mileage mainly highway driving, and I could not get this kind of information on hybrids. If taken care of I am hoping to get 400,000 - 500,000 km out of my new TDI, and unfortunately I did not have this comfort level with buying a hybrid. Has anyone out there being putting on this kind of mileage on their hybrid? I would be very interested in this feedback. As well, how do the batteries respond to living in a colder climate?
Too late for this purchase, but I will surely be back in the market in 5-6 years.
I'd only switch to a hybrid car if they'd be equipped with a diesel instead of a petrol engine, because I really miss the torque at lower revs on petrol cars. It'd be nice, not having to use the combustion engine in stop and go traffic.
Concerning the Echo's design: it's been sold in Japan and Europe as the Yaris for years and years now and it sells pretty damn good over here. :-)
I wouldn't recommend using Biodiesel in your TDI. We tried it for a couple of months in our Passat and it doesn't perform well when it's cold out (-10°C) and you have to change your oil filter all the damn time. The comes really unhandy when the car starts smoking at around 100mph on the highway and suddenly slows down to 20mph, and finally dying.
Volkswagen, Seat, Audi and Skoda now prohibit the use of Biodiesel for their models, because they're having nothing but trouble with it. Biodiesel is only safe to use in pretty old, not supercharged diesels.
And remember, I'm talking about the certified, good, quality European Biodiesel...
I'd love to get the new Prius model, but it's almost 4 times the price. That's the problem - the Prius is a larger car, so Toyota are counting on a comparison to the next class up.
They need to put a hybrid engine in the smaller car. I think there would be quite a big market for them there. If you're sensitive to the environmental question, you're less likely to be the kind of person who would spend big bucks on a car anyway.
If you look at the specs for the Echo Hatchback on toyota.ca, you will see
that they are using Cndn/IMPERIAL gallons for their mileage data, NOT US Gallons.
Since the Echo is being introduced from the UK & European markets into Canada, the toyota
folks are already comfortable with Imperial gallon terminology. Since the Imperial gallon is the de facto Cndn gallon (how soon many forget!), they probably see no reason to point it outon their website.
Therefore Mr. Garrity's comparison with Hybrids is a false one since his mileage data
for them is in US gallons. Imperial galls = 4.5 litres; US galls = 3.785 litres
The actual fuel economy for the Echo Hatchback is 35 mpg city & 45 mpg hwy in US gallons; this is just slightly different than the data for the Echo sedan on fueleconomy.gov.
Therefore, the Echo Hatchback is not in the same league as the Hybrids; they will all get
10-20 more miles per gall on the hwy & 10-15 more miles per gall in the city.
Also, Toyota may not be selling the Echo hatch in the US but the related Scion model will be sold there. If someone from the US wanted to buy an Echo hatch in Canada and import it, it is not a big deal - I've heard the paperwork is simple enough. Having said all this, it is still a steep premium to pay an additional $Cndn. 6 - 8 K for the higher hybrid mileage. For me, the biggest drawback is that it is not clear whether any of the hybrids will tolerate a small trailer or roof racks. Suppose you wanted to lug a canoe or small dinghy and the trailer had a tongue wt of 50 lbs w/ a total load of 400 lbs. Would a hybrid's electric motor malfunction?
You say that you got 6.3 litres per 100 km by the time of your first fill up.
This works out to 44.5 miles per Imperial gallon which seems amazingly good.
I'd be grateful for any more recent fuel econ. data you have. This car overall looks
incredibly good for the money. Probably will buy one this year.
But for me the idea for the hybrid is also to try to drive 'clean' in the cities where the concentration of cars is very important, and still have a reasonnable performance on hwy.
The technology attached to todays internal combustion engine is remarkable when you consider that the core principle has not changed in 100 years (spark ignites fuel to create energy).
In fairness, I think the car manufacturers have done their part in maximizing the efficiency of engines, consider this (from General Motors:)
* Since the mid-1960s, vehicle tailpipe emissions of hydrocarbons (HC), carbon monoxide (CO), and oxides of nitrogen (NOX) have significantly decreased. In the United States and Canada, HC, CO and NOX of passenger cars have decreased by 99 percent, 96 percent, and 95 percent, respectively.
* Each gallon of gasoline results in about 9 kilograms of carbon dioxide when burned. The emissions of CO2 from our cars and light trucks have decreased significantly since the mid-1970s as fuel efficiency has increased. CO2 per kilometer from new U.S. vehicles has been reduced 56% for cars and 44% for light trucks since the mid-1970's.
* In the United States, the average fuel economy of our new cars and light trucks has increased 130% and 75%, respectively, since 1974.
At this point it is not looking like the electric vehicle will be the model of the future. Too many issues with length of a charge, lack of power, weight, etc. Hydrogen power, fuel cell or otherwise,
appears to be taking the lead in terms of practicality & usability. Producing a byproduct of clean water does not hurt. It is reportedly within 6-10 years of full market potential.
My question is, have the other people kept up in reducing emissions - such as the petroleum industry?
You make some good points, but I think the hope for a hydrogen powered vehicle is wishful thinking. Basically you need a primary power source to generate the hydrogen. Oil & natural gas are expected to get increasingly scarce & expensive over the next ten years (see for example: dieoff.org, hubbertpeak.org, or the recent book by Richard Heinberg - "The Party's Over"). There is likely not adequate infrastructure to harness enough from alternate sources like coal, wind, solar, biomass & nuclear to fully compensate.
If you want to get truly awesome fuel economy, I suggest driving a smalll motorbike. My Kawasaki Eliminator 125 gets 115 miles per gallon, seats two, has two saddle bags for groceries & a windshield. BMW is now offering a similar bike but with a canopy structure for bad weather protection. Granted small motorbikes have a lousy emissions profile relative to a hybrid (esp. bad on HC emmisions), BUT, there have been great strides made lately with new catalytic converters. I am getting one from Taiwan that will cut my emissions by 60%+.
WRT emissions from non-Car sources, I believe these have come down to varying extents. Things like Paint have typically 30% less solvent versus 30 yrs ago. Most new oil/gas power stations & incinerators have radically improved scrubbers.
I guess the biggest problem is that these improvements have been partly offset by the increase in North America's population & the consumerist/throw away society we've become. Also, people seem to travel, esp. fly more, and flying is the very worst way to travel in terms of pollution per passenger mile.
Thanks for pointing it out Chris, I'm updated the post and added an note about the change.
Sorry for the confusion.
ps Brian, your mileage figures fall well below the published range of fuel economy values in the small print below the big "48" on the US window sticker and you may have more luck than I negotiating with Honda or the courts. Fill your tank the same way at the same pump and station and keep careful mileage records.
http://www.thesmart.ca/
http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/index.cfm?ID=3476
I've read teasers about the Fit coming to the US but nothing confirming this....
Anybody hear anything about this?
My friend owns a 2002 (2003?) Prius, and I've driven around with him a few times in it. He says that he gets 50+ mpg no problem. On the other hand, one of his neighbors got a Prius and could barely manage 40 mpg. It turns out that their driving habits made the difference in gas mileage.
What you have to remember is: hitting your breaks wastes energy (gas). Even though the Prius does a good job converting most of that energy back into electric power, its not a 100% conversion, so you're still losing energy. So when I say "driving habits," I mean stomping on the gas, going 1/8 of a mile, and slamming on the brakes because of a red light or traffic. This kind of driving will kill your fuel efficiency in any car. The electric motor and brake system on the Prius mitigates this some, but it can't perform miracles.
My friend also tries to coast alot. There are long stretches on both local roads and highway where he tries to avoid using either the gas or the brakes for as long as possible. As he (somewhat insanely) puts it: its like a little game. The Prius "keeps score" (of your mpg), and you try and beat your old best score. I think you had to have been there...
Anyway, I'm not saying that you shouldn't use your brakes or that you should drive like an old lady, but its really not necessary to keep accelerating after you see a light turn red 100 ft ahead of you.
On a completely different note, is anyone else freaked out by how quiet it is at low speeds? That electric motor is, as far as I can tell, completely silent. Its the one car I can't hear coming down the street, which I suppose is pretty nice. An all-Prius world would dramatically cut down on urban noise pollution.
Wife needed a new car - the '93 4cyl standard minivan is showing it's age. It was our 5th anniversary - last Feb 29th.
She REALLY WANTS to use the carpool lanes and had to have an automatic. So she had to get either the Prius or the Honda.
Both to me seem about the same as far as price goes -
The Honda is a $16K (US) car going for $20K, and the Prius is a $24K car going for $20k. But all the dealers in the area said the Prius was going to take 7 months AND there was the niggling fact SHE COULDN'T SEE OVER THE DASH.
So on Feb 29th we bought the underpowered Civic which is getting 36mpg overall for the first 1500 miles. With the present price of gas we might recoup the extra $4K by our 7th anniversary, in 2012.
But she gets to use the carpool lanes.
Here's a related link: http://www.autonet.ca/AutonetStories/stories.cfm?storyID=11607
Here is an interesting opinion piece, from the trade magazine 'Automotive News', from someone that is supposed to be in the know
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KEITH CRAIN: Let's rethink our engine types
Automotive News / April 19, 2004
A couple of weeks ago, I drove a remarkable car that gets about 70 mpg on the highway. It wasn't a prototype. It's being manufactured and sold to consumers in large quantities.
It was powered by a diesel with a turbocharger. It is a Smart, and it's made by a division of DaimlerChrysler in France. It's a two-seater that is perfect for highly congested cities like Paris, Rome or Tokyo.
But it's not a hybrid, and it's not electric. It is a diesel. It uses direct injection, and it's quiet and soot free. It has zippy performance as well.
If we want to improve fuel economy, our regulators ought to make it easier for automakers to put clean, modern diesels on the road.
The EPA's rules for 2007 don't outlaw diesels, but they do set high hurdles.
More than half of new vehicles sold in the United States aren't cars. It is ridiculous that practically the only diesel-powered vehicles you can buy in America are huge trucks. Millions of pickup trucks and SUVs ought to be potential diesel vehicles.
We shouldn't blame just the EPA. If it changed clean-air rules tomorrow, which it could do if it understood the situation, the domestic industry couldn't put a diesel engine in a Ford F-150 or a Chevy Tahoe or a Chrysler Pacifica for several years, if ever.
While the hybrid gasoline-electric powertrain is an interesting engineering exercise, it is still an impractical and not particularly economical method of building vehicles. The mileage for hybrids isn't all that remarkable either. With its high manufacturing costs, it's not a viable solution for mass-marketed vehicles.
There is no better vehicle mix in the world for diesel engines than in the United States. With all the trucks and SUVs, diesel engines would be appropriate and efficient. Both light and medium pickups and SUVs would be perfect vehicles for the diesel engine.
First, the EPA must wake up and understand the modern diesel engine, which is incomparably cleaner than yesterday's passenger-car diesels.
The EPA must be flexible enough to allow vehicles sold in the United States to use diesels.
Then it will be up to the U.S. and Asian manufacturers to get those diesels in their trucks as soon as possible, which is easier said than done.
Americans deserve a fuel-efficient choice.
I'm leaning toward the Echo since the Golf is wayyy more costly and I'm not confident about VW's long term reliability.
The drag about the current Echo Hatchbacks in Canada is that they are still dogged by that 'small=cheap' marketing mindset. I was in Switzerland last year for awhile and an acquaintance had a German-market Echo (Yaris) Hatchback - its got a tach, leather, really nice plastics, rear discs brakes etc. - all the basics you'd want, but are lacking here. http://www.toyota.de/showroom/yaris_2003/gallery.html
I emailed Toyota Canada to ask if these things would come here soon, and they sent the following:
"Currently there are no plans to offer a European options on the
Toyota Echo. However, we have noted your interest in this option and
have forwarded it to our Product Planning department for their
information and future consideration.
Maybe I'll just buy a used Echo 4-dr for now and see what comes up in a year or so... unless the Audi A2 gets here first - sweet: great looks, performance, and a really roomy ride! Smart's are neato, but a bit impractical for a 1-car household.
Peace,
AD
Back in my college days I had an '85 Honda CRX HF that was rated 44/51, averaged 48.5 mpg for me... nowadays, seems like manufacturers should have been able to improve on those numbers from 20 years ago, but instead it's gotten worse unless you go hybrid.... any conspiracy I should know about?
Welcome to the hybrid fray. I have been an owner of a 2002 Prius for some time now and I can tell you that the poster who said the mileage is "not all that different" hasn't driven one for any length of time. We routinely get over 50 mpg in town and about 48 mpg on the highway. The only vehicle we have that even approaches this is a twelve year old Toyota Celica that gets 37 mpg. The reason why these numbers seem to be reversed from the expected with normal gas engines is that the Prius in town runs more on electricity than it does on the highway. The car is very quiet, especially at stop signs, where the gas engine stops completely and doesn't start again for a while, even when pulling away from the stop. It will not start until one does something assertive with the throttle. Slow accelerations will maintain power from the electric engine exclusively until about 20 mph or until the computer tells the gas engine to start up to charge the battery cells. I bought the car used with about 11000 miles on it for about $15000 dollars. We drove a hard bargain at the end of the month. I am not sure where your price numbers came from but at Edmunds.com the MSRP is about $20000. I agree that the Honda hybrids are more expensive, but one should look at the way both companies came at the problem. Toyota made an electric car with a gas backup and Honda did it the other way. I would imagine that in the Phoenix area one might buy a Prius for about $22000 new. I believe that these little cars are the coming thing with fuel prices here in the Phoenix area at well over $2. I think that a lot of people are buying SUVs from a marketing standpoint (macho). We see a lot of Hummers down here that, I suspect, have not and will not see an hour of "out in the sticks" desert driving.
Good luck with your new car. Jack
Just some of my reasons for going the hybrid route:
1) low emissions. I'll admit it, I'm an earthy-crunchy type, and if I have to travel, I'd rather do it with the least pollution possible. Your kids can thank me later.
2) Technology. The technology behind these cars is staggeringly cool. The fact that a car can be re-engineered to use an alternate power source without any changes from the user's perspective is very impressive. Your grampa put gas in his car and drove. You put gas in your car and drive. So do I. To drastically change something internally without breaking that tradition is quite a feat.
3) fuel economy. I'm getting 2x the milage I used to get. Other cars can do it too, but not as clean or as neat.
4) someone will eventually port MAME to the dashboard screen. ;)
http://www.mame.net Want to play spy hunter for real? j/k
5) having the engine kill at stop lights is creepy-cool.
I'm used to driving cars that kill at stop lights, but for different reasons.
6) tax breaks. I got a 2000 tax credit when I bought my prius, taking the car's price under 20k. I think that's totally reasonable for a car as equiped as the prius.
7) ok, this is the most important one for me: I wanted to send a direct signal to car manufacturers that we are in need of a change.
Gas powered cars haven't improved effeciency or emissions enough over their lifetime to warrant a future in our world. Gas is a dead end, literally and figuratively. We've known this for years and have done nothing about it until recently.
Yes hybrids are a stepping-stone to other, superior technologies, but we have to start somewhere. When something better comes along, I'll buy one of those, and sell my prius to someone who is currently driving an all gas car. Everyone wins.
-jeff!
Does anybody have any comparison in price and mileage between the Highlander hybrid and the Ford Escape hybrid?
Jim, call your nearest Toyota dealer across the border and they'll sell you one. It's legal to import. We did it in October 2003 and love the car.
What about warranty, service and parts? I'm sure that an American dealer won't honor the warranty, correct?
Jim
Warranty is good in the USA. Major parts for engine and drivetrain are Echo. Body parts obviously will have to be imported from Canada if there is a need. I saw my first Echo Hatchback at a Washington State Toyota dealer who had purchased it in Canada and was selling it on their lot as a used car.
If you want good answers, call your nearest Toyota dealer across the border.
40 MPG all the time with our automatic RS model. Roomier than our Subaru Impreza.
David
-Tracie
Anyone interested in The Smart is welcome to visit my new website www.smartcar.ca I would like to research how well The Smart compares to hybrid vehicles for comparison.
-George
The other important factor in the emmission rating a Prius is SULEV super Ultra Low emmission Vehicle. An echo only ulev. It does make a diiference if we all drive cleaner and drive less !
The TDI's OTOH, are hiway cars. Ok in the city but really shine when the going gets fast. Since most of my driving is hiway but not necessarily fast :( , I get 50 mpg all the time.
Still, that Escape looks interesting.
My biggest caveat: these things are heavily subsidized but the makers to move them. What happens when they get tired of that. And how much to replace that battery pack?
My 2002 Honda Civic HX / 5 SPD is driven 27500 miles per year, as I have ~100 mile round trip highway commute each day. I somewhat obsessively track the mileage on this car every time I refill it, and the car consistently performs at 40 - 42 miles per gallon, with over 60000 miles on it. And yes, I treat speed limits as 'suggestions'.
If you purchased a hybrid, you may not want to read further, ... I paid $13700 + tax for the car out the door ( I live to negotiate ), with AC, CD and all-weather mats, and I bought it new. Further, the car is simple, and has incredibly low maintenance requirements. I have replaced tires and oil. The timing belts and spark plugs do not require replacement until 110000 miles. You cannot find a better value, normalized to cost per mile, in any other car.
I think we all need to work with our state legislators to essentially copy CA's good laws that brings the lower emissions cars to their state. (For example, you can get a Civic Hybrid with PZEV ratings in CA, but not in MD).
According to Honda's website, the Union of Concerned Scientists, or( something like that- a steadfast group which has been trying to measure and prevent global warming) said that Honda's fleet as a whole has far lower emssions than other companies. They make trucks with cleaner emissions in gas hog SUV's for people who will buy that sort of thing anyway.
(Rear vision compromised for me in Prius-fix that, Toyota.)
Thank you,
Leo Epps
The lights are on all the time by design. They're referred to as "daytime running lights" and cut down on accidents by making the vehicle more visible in all conditions.
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I have put together a pretty intense spreadsheet with all about 25 possible choices, annual mileage, cost of gas, trade-in, outstanding loan, and so on. WHen I look at gas savings alone, the Ford Escape Hybrid comes out on top. However, when I take into account the cost of the vehicles, the payback on the Ford Escape is over 5 years and near the bottom of the pack. And this doesn't take into account the possible higher cost of maintenance if something happens to the Hybrid system - which has to be more complex to repair and a limited set of knowledge at the dealerships.
However, all the manufacturers are offering incentives and when I went to the Ford web site this week, I checked their rebate calculator and I can get about $5,000 off the MSRP (which I was using to make the comparisons - Canadian dollars btw.) Now, the Ford Escape jumps to the top.
You can also park smart cars back or front-in between other cars on the street because they're only as long as a normal car is wide. Just two seats but there is a boot and you can get luggage in. They go about 90mph too - should you ever need to. Semi-automatic gear box is horrible but then you have lots of autos right and I only hated it because I drive a manual? They do about 50 miles to the gallon at least and the emissions are very good. With combo cars I always worry that I'm just polluting the atmosphere via a power station rather than via the exhaust. A smart is almost the cleaner option!
A second course would be to convert to LPG. If you guys have the option of lpg (excuse me for not knowing I'm a complete hick). You get slightly less performance but it's cheaper and cleaner and you only have to do one in five fill ups with standard petrol/gas. Lots of cars have it here in the UK.... or you could be really out there and be like the guy in the next town from me who runs a WWII Citroen Traction on used chip fryer oil! Apparently, people pay him to take that away!
Cheers
GREG