I hate graphic designers. I do not hate graphic artists, just graphic designers. This may strike some as odd, as I very much enjoy my job as creative director at a web development firm and a significant part of my job involves graphic design. I can assure you there is no conflict. If anything, this distain renders me better able to do my job.
What I hate about graphic designers is the attitude that artistic freedom should exempt them from criticism from laypeople. Bah! Artistic freedom can only take you so far when you are designing menus for the local pub. If you need to express yourself, write a song or paint on your own time, don’t try to squeeze it into a 2×3″ yellow-pages ad for a client.
Graphic design is a fine and noble craft. Please remove your head from your ass — you are embarassing the rest of us.
This seems an uncommonly curmudgeonly post (this said by one who should know!).
The graphic design of everyday objects is one of the few places where art can reach into our everyday lives (assuming that design + effect = art).
The most well-designed piece of graphic work I’ve ever seen was a full-page yellow pages ad for Al’s Pizza in Peterborough, Ontario. It was daring and iconoclastic — it was art to me — and it worked.
Do you mean the kind of people who use Dreamweaver to design super-bloted web pages without even knowing what HTML is? And then pimping their designs as the best thing since sliced bread even if a single line of text weights at 200Kb?
In a conversation with a graphic designer about his difficulty in communicating with clients, he summarized his frustrations by stating: “Come on – I went to $#@!ing art school!” – as to imply that the client should defer to his knowledge on the subject and back off. This is when I decided that I hated graphic designers.
Now, I’m all for give freedom to those who know what they are doing. When I hire a contractor to do wiring in my house – I don’t watch over his shoulder. I find out who is good through sources I trust, explain what I am looking for, and let the pro do the job.
When I look for a piece of furniture, I look for something designed and built by a fine craftsman – there is art in this. However, I’m not going to buy a crooked table that reflects the inner-turmoil of the builder. My pen will roll off.
I appreciate the thoughtful reply. Hyperbole and the web can be a dangerous combination.
Peter – you are, among other things, a graphic designer. I do not hate you. As for the rest of you: bollocks!
Gabriel – yes, I would include those people.
When I were a lad, pals went to NSCAD, Nova Scotia College of Art and Design. The division between the two sides then was pretty clear -and lowering oneself to utility was deemed by the art side as being a ways towards ninnyism. How does, however, the design of a mug differ from the design of a logo and the design of an ad? The first can often please, the second rarely and the last almost never. Yet all are designed.
Things break when we surrender creative control to specialists with outside vision. Our organization has a story: what our real people and systems really do for customers, tangible benefits anyone can evaluate.
I’ll guess Steven — like me — only hires graphic designers for comprehensive, professional spitballing. Give me choices. Leave your ego in the Mini. Stop talking whean I interject. Remember I *could* do this myself, and it would work. Deliver more than I can do and you’ve got an admirer. You’re extra, discretionary, get it? We’re artful, but we don’t sell art.
LQ
Lou: “Leave your ego in the Mini.”
Brilliant.
Steven (and whomever else cares to interject),
I currently work as a Graphic Artist myself, and in my opinion the main difference between a Graphic Designer and a Graphic Artist is that the Artist creates the ‘art’ while the Designer works with it (in building layouts and such). There are many exceptions of course.
Given this definition, it seems to me that your gripe should in fact be with the Artists rather than the Designers, since the artists are the ones doing the artwork, and therefore would be the ones most likely to whine about “artistic freedom” (again — many exceptions…myself being one I should hope).
Would you distinguish the two fields differently?
As much as I agree with you on the emotional level I must still say that some clients boss around their designers too much. It very much depends on good project management I guess but some clients really do look over your shoulders all the time.
All craftsmen get irritated at this. I guess the electricity guy who sets up the wiring in your house would be irritated as well if he would have people dabble to much in his craftsmanship. And all in all, not much differs craftsmen apart, they (probably most of them) have education and they perform a specialized craft.
The higher up in the food chain of craftsmanship you get, the less you encounter this dabble-problem. As a designer, of course you improve your design skills and your talent at communicating your ideas to clients, but the more original respect you have the less dabble. A junior designer for example have just finished school and probably have poor skills in design and communication with real clients.
I agree with you Steve – there is a difference. I would certainly not think of my design projects as art – to me it is work. A work that I enjoy and can be creative within – but still work. I am sorry you hate us so… I could say the same about so many web designers out there too – however there are always exceptions to the rule.
Andy Warhol took his art and began producing it in a factory setup – becoming the art director. When does Art become design? and vice versa?
I’d like to meet the clients your designers work for. I know too many clients that won’t bother to listen when I give them advice that will not only result in a better looking design, but save them money also. I can count on one hand projects I’ve actually had a significant amount of artistic control over. As someone that works closely with commercial printers though, I know the sort of designer you mean. They’re the kind that set up projects for clients claiming to be an expert–only later the printer discovers they have no idea what a bleed is and all their measurements are off. A true designer can measure and is a computer whiz; not someone that just bought a computer and a copy of Photoshop. It amazes me that many print shops over here don’t have a clue when you talk about file compression, font management, or even something as basic as Pantone colors.
A sympathetic designer in the U.S.
Blah blah blah, thats right Steve, blah blah blah blah. Your totally right Steve, blah blah blah, fornicate me on the hood of my 73 FireBird.
Pixel Pimp – you’re a graphic designer, aren’t you.
Surely criticism is what a graphic designer thrives on, its through this process of refinement or revision that an optimum solution for the client is met.
Ultimately the design has to work for the client, or you become an artist, graphic or otherwise…
The designers you mention who “have the attitude that artistic freedom should exempt them from criticism from laypeople. Bah!” are unlikely to last, or succeed, and will probably become graphic artists in the long run! Will you still hate them then, though?
Well, as a former graphic designer myself, I must say I was a rather nice fellow ;).
Seriously, I think the prima donas you’re referring to are not designers in the true sense of the word. That is, people who try to DESIGN communication, to make the strategic, ergonomic and, yes, visual aspects of a work efficient and interesting.
(By the way, the designers with whom I’ve been working in the last few years – we’re a small web department inside a big, evil advertising agency – have all been open-minded enough. Probably because they’re team-players… and competent.)
You are talking about the fact that this sort of art also has utilitarian demands. Graphic design is often a hybrid and needs a compromise that puts utility first.
Artists can look at this as a challenge to their ingenuity or a crimp in their style. You seem to address the latter, and it begs the question of whether these sorts of artists had real conception of what their speciality truly demanded.
There is something very fine about the marriage of art and utility. Maybe we’ve lost the appreciation of that along the way.
…. and then there is the fact that not all conceptualizers are great communicators on the personal level……. artistic temperment and all;)
You spelled “disdain” wrong, director.
Hey Jackass aka Stephen
Congrats – you have just created a blatant stereotype. It would be like me calling web developers a bunch of people that are great at hiding behind the computer but lack the ability to confront people in person. We all know that is not true.
I collect graphic design – my favorite piece is a menu from a pub called Saxaphone in Bangkok. Holy @#$! – a well traveled designer. It is one of the best designs I have ever seen, who would have thought.
I have extensively studied design – I know what works and what doesn’t. Most importantly I know its all about the client. Its keeping the client happy that matters. You need to know their message, you need to make them happy, then you need to take that message to their audience. A good design can make all the difference my friend. Now im not saying that the designer should have artistic feedom. The designer needs to be able to answer why she/he did what they did on every little detail. If it doesn’t fit the project – it shouldn’t be there. Communication being the key there. If the client understands your decisions and agrees, there will be no problem.
Now about the embarassing part…. What embarassing is a creative director that doesn’t know what their designer is doing before they present to the client. I would have fired you, not the designer, for letting him in the meeting.
What do I do with clients who have no idea what good design is? I have a photographer client that had me do a promotional for her wedding videography. The market for this video was engaged couples and she gave me four wedding videos from which to take footage and said “just be creative!”. We created a beautiful four minute video using the song “From This Moment.” We showed it to some engaged friends of ours and they loved–in fact they even got teary because of the dynamic impact of the song/video combination–not even knowing the couples in the movie. The style was very classic and simple–it included the most beautiful brides and wedding sites…very inspiring to a young engaged couple in love. Plus half the battle was already won with the song.
The client watched it and didn’t like it. She said that she wanted fireworks everywhere and layer upon layers of video–all at 50% opacity. We agreed to work with her but still tried to explain how this will create a much more beautiful image of her business than would layers and layers of cloudly footage–plus where do fireworks come in to a romantic wedding? (Engaged couples are not throwing a 4th of July party–they are celebrating thier love–and for a promo they will want to see beautiful brides, flowers, and passionate kisses and dances…more of the fairy-tale dream)
So yes some of us did go to art school and we have trained our eye for the standard professional “feel” of good design.
How am I supposed to convey this to my client and keep thier business? I hate putting my mark on work that looks so cheap and amateaur–just because the client wanted it to look a certain way.
Steven Garrity, I’m a graphic designer and graphic artist and I will agree with you on that metter of non professional designers, I think that design is same art but digitaly made why do I think so… I’m a President, Art & Design Director in a Design Comapny, I’ve finished 3 years of Advertising Design & Visual Communications, 4 yeras of Fine Art School, 1 year of Computer Animation, 1 year of Computer Technologies, 6 months of Internet Technologies, 1.5 years of Web Design & Digital Media. I’m officialy known as Artist (Painter), Designer in many industries (Web, Graphic, Advertising, Industrial, etc.) and as that list tells you about my knowledge and experience since 1997, I will tell you that in the world and aspecialy in Canada there is aproximatly 75% of graduated students from design programs doe not have any idea what design is and how theyshould design things in the real world, I’m getting around 10, 15 resumes + portfolios a month from people asking for job and this makes about 120 or more resumes+portfolios a year and from these 120 resumes+portfolios a year I can find only one or two people that actually have some talent not professional but they have something going on in theyre creativity and design works. Resenatly one of my friends started a Graphic Design Program in “some” college and she asked me to take a look at the program and subject that the going to study and I must say the education for this kind of field is very low level and from that reason you have those designers that think “if I finished with good grades this college or university I’m the Pro and I know what I’m doing!” so here is the answer for your problems… never hire people that graduat from so called design programs, always look at the portfolio and skills and always give them some chalange (some design work with time frame, requirments and detailed specifications) and see what they can do, then make your decisions.
Well, shoot! I’m just an English major/writer/editor masquerading as a graphic designer to make a few bucks. What really ticks me off is people who misspell words like “disdain” and disregard correct punctuation in the text they use in their designs. But who ever said words were important, huh?
Here’s an answer with some new ideas that you may not have thought about that may at least change your point of view.
Hey let’s face it this is commercial art, and there is a fundamental flaw in the idea of using art to sell. But nonetheless, it can be a fun way to make a living.
I’ve been a graphic designer for about five years now and I have learned a lot about the process of creating a piece of commercial art and have matured in my view point as well.
My frustrations have been mostly with account people, clients; or others not trained in a creative discipline, trying to do my job. I don’t know if you have come up through the line in the account side or the creative, but there is something you have missed in your comments; and that is the CREATIVE BRIEF that was given (or really not given) to the designer. It may well be that the designer in that case was green, and hasn’t learned the importance of principles like hierarchy, or hasn’t realized that he is designing communication art, not just something cool, but many times the brief is very poor, or is just simply not done at all.
I did a brochure the other day, and the creative brief was done by the account executive sketching out pencil layouts of the brochure and choosing images from a disc provided by the client. Photography or image selection is a big part of graphic design and is not a subjective activity. The AE needs to communicate the objectives of the client and what the piece should convey in terms of MARKETING CONCEPTS, for ex. “stress images of this product line on page 2” or “please use an elderly couple engaged in the service or product on the cover” THE ACTUAL SELECTION or the creation of the image which communicates that objective is the graphic designers job and is not subjective.
This activity of account people or business poeple without training wanting to do the ceative work is becoming worse and worse, and I imagine didn’t occur as often before the computer hit the scene in the Eighties.
The client (or lay person) has a promotional budget and a may have just few ideas or have their marketing objectives fully defined in an entire campaign, or it may be somewhere in between. How well the ideas are communicated varies greatly. That is another basic problem, the AE many times never does their job of defining the objectives or helping them define those objectives in the piece they want. Instead they start thinking about how it is going to look.
Now don’t get me wrong I understand that neither defining marketing objectives or designing is a perfect process, and that you have to be willing to take criticism be flexible when you miss the mark. A creative professional is subject to this to this according to how well they studied and refined their skill, and how well they clarified the objectives for the piece.
But just because they misunderstood a brief or one particular designer didn’t study hard enough in school, doesn’t allow the AE to step in and start doing design. It’s not a subjective activity, it’s based on priciples, and the AE or client certainly has less understadning of those design priciples then the creative professional.
Graphic Design is a fun job. If you want to do it, great, glad to have you. Go to design school and create a good portfolio, and we’ll see you in a few years.
Whee-e-e doggies…..talk about blowin’ out
the hot air. One has to be pretty full of
oneself to be passin’ judgement in the first
place. A graphic designer has to wear a dozen
different hats. They chose the profession
because of the diversity and creativity
involved. They have to have training in every
aspect of the design process…. that means…..
from the seed of inception to the newstand,
tv, home computer etc. etc. They have to play
nice with others or the project will not succeed.
They have to listen to others in order to get the
best from everyone involved and they have to lay
down the law if the process begins to meander all
over the place. They also have to stroke ego after
ego including the design team egos while maintaining
quality control. Designers often are the creative
directors if the title doesn’t exist within their
company. They often have to take their place in the
production line (aka graphic artist) to get a job done.
This is not a problem since they have been trained
in this area as well. All in all walk a mile in one’s shoes
or hire a “real” graphic designer.
you are a dick
This is all a case of knowing what you can do and leaving alone what you can’t. Isn’t that why companies are comprised of specialists and individuals doing their own individual job?
I agree with many points made here, that ‘non designers’ need to let go of work that is out of their depth. I also agree that designers need to get their heads out of the clouds.
First point – designers are hired to do a job, Let them do it.
Second point – designers are hired to do a job. Someone else is paying the bill. When the designer calls the shots, he can do what he likes.
As a designer, and fine artist (ie. painter), i think I know when to let go. When I’m designing, and the client has a dumb idea that they just wont let go of, well, I just go right ahead. i’m being paid, right? And who am I to argue? Am I a whore? Is anyone who is in a job where they are just told what to do any different? I have found my fine art practise has taught me how to handle criticism. And my design work has showed me how to paint commissions when its not necessarily something I would put my name to.
I don’t understand, either, how designers seem to be so insistent that their way is the higher way. As long as the client is informed, and you are providing a quality product (and being paid), is design suffering? Who is to blame?
I think designers and clients need to get off their high horses and just get the job done.
By the way – Alan? I know what you mean about the ‘Two Sides’ in an art school. I studied fine art at ACAD and saw it there. I then went on to study graphic design at a private college. Now I sit very comfortably on the fence.
I use my ego as a cushion.
Such hostility. I love it already. Well listen up kiddies. Open wide and say Ahhh . . . here it comes. Artists hate designers for the simple fact that the designers “sell out” to the “man.” As cliche as it may sound, that’s the bottom line. No runarounds. No cutesy, witty, “clever” slogans. No fancy, prissy, latte-drinking, Prada-wearing, Mini-driving, “I am designer, hear me roar,” attitude.
Artists are liberals, free. The work is always more personal as an artist, no matter the medium that is being used. Art is pure. Art is self-expression. It is the soul tragically placed for all to see, criticize, and condemn to each individuals point of view.
Designers are corporate It is business, they are savy in the “art” of communicating; which in turn leads to selling; and eventually leads to line the pockets of corporations; they do the “design as a means of propagating corporate myth to infiltrate consumer psychology.”
And those who believe they can be artist/designer hybrids are a little off. Hybrids are made when you mate mares with asses. The ass/mare crossbreeding results in a mule. So how about you just stick to being called “well-rounded.”
ROFL Omar. Excuse me a second here….
I can’t stop laughing. There….that’s better
now….whew!
Artists like yourSELF are SELF-centered,SELF-concious,
and SELF-absorbed, which probably means you
are not a deeply enriching artist or at least
not one of the good ones. Get over yourself.
Or get over the hollywood version of what
you think an artist is.
Toulouse comes to mind when I think of
commercial ventures in art. My goodness…isn’t
his work hanging in the LOUVRE? In countless
museums all over the world for that matter? Ya
know I think it is. Weren’t his posters used in
advertising?….by jingle I think they were.
Let’s see designers….hmmm….
Frank Lloyd Wright now there was a guy who’s
architecture as well as his signature
“commercial” glass DESIGNS, furniture DESIGNS
etc. spoke volumes and led the world into
new artistic thought.
Designers ain’t artists?
You need to hit the books and get your head
out of your….oops…pardon. Check out
the history of design and graphic design and
broaden your horizons. It might make you a
better artist if you’re not afraid to open
your closed but “liberal” mind. I say these things
without the least bit of hostility but maybe I should
leave that judgment to the mind of the reader
and see if they can figure it out for themselves
if this little diatribe is hostile or satirical.
Best of luck in your quest for freedom.
I work for a 300 person civil engineering firm as the “Corporate designer, artist, webmaster whatever. I’m not sure what I should refer to myself because I have no job description, I do it all. Since I began with this firm I have had free reign. Free reign to work with internal clients to give them visually interesting cover designs for their project proposals, marketing folders, SOQ etc. keeping in mind what they are trying to emphasizes. Some clients are easy and I can hit the target with little revision. Recently an engineer and principal of the firm was put in charge of the marketing Dept. and is trying to micro-manage every aspect of what I do as well as the two marketing Coordinators. He know nothing about image resolution, color theory etc. but knows what he likes. I have suggested that he get involved early in a project during conceptual phase. But no, he doesn’t want that. He just wants to see everything I do and redesign at that point! Since he is new at this it is obvious he is trying to use his experience as a civil engineer and project manager, marking things up as if he were developing a set of plans when working with a CAD operator. He is not going to go away. I have to deal with this or move on. I have to find the right approach with this man. To his requests, I state my views and point out design principals to enforce my position. I also explain technical issues that must be taken into consideration with his ideas. What I see in this new process is a slowdown in production, and double the work because I will do two versions of everything, one his way, one my way. When complaints from others that things are taking too long start flying around the offices, who do you think is going to be blamed?
Leary,
let me take a wild guess. Hummmmmmmm… You? lol
Thats just the way things work on the corporate lalaland. They dwell and we suffer like hell.
Better days will come my friend.
–And those who believe they can be artist/designer hybrids are a little off. Hybrids are made when you mate mares with asses. The ass/mare crossbreeding results in a mule. So how about you just stick to being called “well-rounded.”–
No I’m not a hybrid. I’m not a one trick pony either. At least being ‘well rounded’, my head is not in any dark place except on my shoulders and I can see the case from both sides of the story with equal amounts of informed and educated aplomb. I can also communicate with people like Leary better than someone who is standing.. no, SITTING on one side of the line.
Designers are artistic and artists design. Does it really matter what you call yourself?Of course not. Not if you have an imagination and want what you do to step/leap/fly out of the box.
As for being a mule, any artist looking down their nose at designers and any designer who is condescending to an artist is about as mule-like as they come. I don’t care WHO their parents were.
Do stuff. Not design. Not art. Just create. Is that so hard?
Graphic Designers are cool. In my opinion, they are blamed for everything that the customers don’t like even if it is an uncontrollable fact. Like, for example, if you are away on a vacation, and your client knows that you are on a vacation, why do they keep expecting work from you? Don’t they know that you have a life as well? How would they like it if you kept on bugging them on their vacation, say if they were a doctor. Everyone deserves a vacation once in a while.
Clients sometimes are too needy. They need things exactly how they want it to the very last detail. If the designer can cope with it, then great! If they can’t, the client shouldn’t be complaining to that one but they should instead get a new designers to do the job.
Oh yeah, one last thing, don’t mess with the designers ’cause they’re everywhere! See that mousepad you have your mouse on? The graphic artists might have made the design, but the designers are the ones that put it all together! So there!
I think Sweet Angel is right! Graphic Designers are not recognized for all those tough hours they have to work just to satisfy their customers. I think the customers should BACK OFF! Like Sweet Angel said, if the Designer that you are working with now doesn’t cut it, then go ahead and find a new one. But, you should always tell your current designer what you didn’t like so that they can improve. Improvement is the key to a better life!
What the heck are you two talking about? If the designer is in the business and wants to keep their job, then they better damn right be doing everything their client tells them to. If their client says jump, they should be saying HOW HIGH! You two are living in a dream world. And as for all the rest of you who are “Graphic Designers” hmph! you are right not to be speaking out because you probably don’t have anything good to say! Haha! Not what do you got!
I am reading this thread with much disdain. I am an IT specialist. I find “well done graphic designers” to be impossible to work with. Do not call graphic design a creative process because it is not. It is long list of fascist graphic design concepts to restrict a persons creative ideas.
Let me reiterate something….
Art Is?? – February 26, 2004 4:15 pm
“Artists like yourSELF are SELF-centered,SELF-concious,
and SELF-absorbed, which probably means you
are not a deeply enriching artist or at least
not one of the good ones. Get over yourself.
Or get over the hollywood version of what
you think an artist is.
Toulouse comes to mind when I think of
commercial ventures in art. My goodness…isn’t
his work hanging in the LOUVRE? In countless
museums all over the world for that matter? Ya
know I think it is. Weren’t his posters used in
advertising?….by jingle I think they were.
Let’s see designers….hmmm….
Frank Lloyd Wright now there was a guy who’s
architecture as well as his signature
“commercial” glass DESIGNS, furniture DESIGNS
etc. spoke volumes and led the world into
new artistic thought.
Designers ain’t artists?
You need to hit the books and get your head
out of your….oops…pardon. Check out
the history of design and graphic design and
broaden your horizons. It might make you a
better artist if you’re not afraid to open
your closed but “liberal” mind. I say these things
without the least bit of hostility but maybe I should
leave that judgment to the mind of the reader
and see if they can figure it out for themselves
if this little diatribe is hostile or satirical.
Best of luck in your quest for freedom.